Genealogy search - from France

[Lanlea]

I am looking for my ancestors on my grandmother's side.
BUT :The information I have is not much.
She gave birth to a daughter (my mother) in 1926 in France , She was born in JESZKOWICE in 1899 but is not the one in the district of Wroclaw(I went there and looked into the archives and she was not born in that village!).

Could anyone tell me how I can search with these information, perhaps on old name village that looks like it from before the war?
Her first name is ZINOWJA, Family name CZERNY can anybody tell me if it is a polish name? How to pronounce it? someone suggested her name might be Zenovia from Ukrainian origin ? How would that be possible?
Thank you for any reply or help at all.

[NikaModzelewska]

Hello!

Do you have any idea which part of Poland your grandmother came from?

There is a village in Czech Silesia called Jezdkowice, which under Austrian rule was Jaeschkowitz (taken from Czech geographical dictionary Mistopisny_rejstrik_obci_ceskeho_Slezska_a_severni_Moravy.pdf)

There is another village in Pomorze, in Słupsk region, called Jerzkowice or Wierzkowice, pronounced similarly (taken from Polish geographical dictionary Słownik geograficzny Królestwa Polskiego i innych krajów słowiańskich).

Nika

[piotr_nojszewski]

The name Zinowja or Zinowia is in fact not Polish but rather a east or southeast slavic form of Zenobia.
http://www.rjp.pan.pl/index.php?option= ... &Itemid=58

In 1994 there were only about 30 people with this given name in Poland, the majority born in north east Poland.
I would guess someone with this name was born in eastern part of Poland (within the borders of the pre-war Poland) but was not of Polish nationality. But it is only a guess.

The Name Czerny is in use in Poland
http://www.moikrewni.pl/mapa/kompletny/czerny.html
eg
https://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halina_Cz ... a%C5%84ska

But it is in use also in Czech, Austria and Germany.

When it comes to the village maybe you should consider
Jeśkowice in Gmina (county) Różana, Województwo Poleskie, the RC Parish was in Różana and the Orthodox in Woroniłowicze.
This places are now in Belorussia.
https://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gmina_R%C3%B3%C5%BCana


regards

[mlszw]

Lanlea
I've done a quick search in Geneszukacz, a search machine on this forum. Here are the results:
http://www.geneszukacz.genealodzy.pl/in ... =pol&op=se
As you can see the surname Czerny at the time of interest and among the parishes indexed by the members was commenest in today's Ukraine and in central Poland.
The name Zinowja would suggest Ukrainian connection.
"Dictionnaire géographique du Royaume de Pologne et des autres pays slaves"
https://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/S%C5%82ow ... _Polskiego
mentions only one place of the name Jeszkowice, near to Czech Opava, which you visisted.
Since apparently Polish is foreign to you and, I guess, your family members, one may assume some distortions of the spelling might have occurred. So, to make life easier for those who can possibly help you on this forum, please, describe the source of your information or, even better, provide photocopies of the original documents.

Greetings
mlszw

[Lanlea]

Hello!

Do you have any idea which part of Poland your grandmother came from?

There is a village in Czech Silesia called Jezdkowice, which under Austrian rule was Jaeschkowitz (taken from Czech geographical dictionary Mistopisny_rejstrik_obci_ceskeho_Slezska_a_severni_Moravy.pdf)

There is another village in Pomorze, in Słupsk region, called Jerzkowice or Wierzkowice, pronounced similarly (taken from Polish geographical dictionary Słownik geograficzny Królestwa Polskiego i innych krajów słowiańskich).

Nika

Hello Nika
Sorry, I do not know which part of Poland, unfortunately!
But thank you very much for the 2 villages reference, I have added them to my list. Especially the one in Pomorze. Do you think that it is easy to write to the "Powiat" and ask if they have birth records? But first how can I find which archive address to contact ?

[NikaModzelewska]

Jerzkowice were in the Czarna Dąbrówka or Schwarz Damerkow region. The birth certificates are available online in Genbaza (metryki.genbaza.pl).
You need to log in to genpol.com to gain password and access, then you can browse the certificates under AP_Koszalin / AP_Słupsk_USC-Standesämter
The certificates are in German, as this was Germany before 1945.

Best of luck

Nika

[Lanlea]

The name Zinowja or Zinowia is in fact not Polish but rather a east or southeast slavic form of Zenobia.
http://www.rjp.pan.pl/index.php?option= ... &Itemid=58

In 1994 there were only about 30 people with this given name in Poland, the majority born in north east Poland.
I would guess someone with this name was born in eastern part of Poland (within the borders of the pre-war Poland) but was not of Polish nationality. But it is only a guess.

The Name Czerny is in use in Poland
http://www.moikrewni.pl/mapa/kompletny/czerny.html
eg
https://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halina_Cz ... a%C5%84ska

But it is in use also in Czech, Austria and Germany.

When it comes to the village maybe you should consider
Jeśkowice in Gmina (county) Różana, Województwo Poleskie, the RC Parish was in Różana and the Orthodox in Woroniłowicze.
This places are now in Belorussia.
https://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gmina_R%C3%B3%C5%BCana


regards

Hello Piotr
Wow !! A great Thank you for the link on Zenobia, my heart was beating strong while reading it !a very valuable information to understand its possible origin.I started to think that the name had never existed!
For the village you name Jeśkowice, was it in Poland in 1899? I do not find this village with English search. Also the border history is complicated to understand for me.Where in Belorussia is this village now?
So many questions..still. And if you can give me more answers, another big thank you.
Lanlea

[piotr_nojszewski]

The village Jeśkowce (not Jeśkowice - I misspelled it) was in Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth till 1795. It was later in Russia (not in the Polish Kingdom) but since 1919 again in Poland.

It was located east of Woroniłowicze
https://goo.gl/maps/xNATfnskdQn

You can find it on the map
http://www.kami.net.pl/kresy/
after you put Jaskowce in the search box.

Wikipedia about Różana
https://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/R%C3%B3%C ... d_brzeski)

The key point is the what was the confession of your ancestor?
The books in Poland and in Russia were kept in the respective church.

[Lanlea]

Lanlea
I've done a quick search in Geneszukacz, a search machine on this forum. Here are the results:
http://www.geneszukacz.genealodzy.pl/in ... =pol&op=se
As you can see the surname Czerny at the time of interest and among the parishes indexed by the members was commenest in today's Ukraine and in central Poland.
The name Zinowja would suggest Ukrainian connection.
"Dictionnaire géographique du Royaume de Pologne et des autres pays slaves"
https://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/S%C5%82ow ... _Polskiego
mentions only one place of the name Jeszkowice, near to Czech Opava, which you visisted.
Since apparently Polish is foreign to you and, I guess, your family members, one may assume some distortions of the spelling might have occurred. So, to make life easier for those who can possibly help you on this forum, please, describe the source of your information or, even better, provide photocopies of the original documents.

Greetings
mlszw

Hello and thank you for your search!

Actually I visited Jeszkowice near Breslau (archives) in lower Silesia, not Opava. This was the only village I found with the correct spelling ! But the problem is this one :
That village "Jeszkowice" is the new name of the village of "Langefeld" after 1945. Jäschkowitz untill 1937,Langefeld untill 1945, Jeskowice after 1945.
So I suppose that it is the wrong village and the archives in this village had not recorded her birth.
What confuse me the most is the spelling of villages, the one you mention in Opava is spellt Jerkowice today (or not?) Is there actually an old spelling and a new one perhaps?? How can I know or organise my search with names that are written differently? I hope I dont make it too complicated!

I will scan the original French document tomorrow and post it here so that you can see.

[Sofeicz]

I will scan the original French document tomorrow and post it here so that you can see.

I have some experience with french documents and I doubt whether it will be helpful. For french official polish names and names of polish town are completly 'unwritable'.

[mlszw]

Ok., let's wait untill you show what you have. If the document was produced by a French official I expect trouble, too. But, let's give it a try.
For now, let me point out this. Jeszkowice does not sound very Polish to me, but rather Czech. We would rather have it Jaśkowice. How do you know Zinowja was Polish at all? Like Piotr Nojszewski mentioned above, the surname is common all throughout Slavonic speaking area. It translates Black (Noir). For instance, you will find a lot of people of this surname in the Czech Republic. They spell it differently, though. It's Černý there. That's why I suggested your revealing your source of information. Is it that you know from family tradition that she came from somewhere in Poland? Or you just speculated based on the sounding of the name?

The google search seems to suggest that Zinowja is the Slovenian variant of Zenobia. So maybe she was Slovenian and that's Slovenia where you should look for Jeszkowice...

Greetings
mlszw

[Lanlea]

Ok., let's wait untill you show what you have. If the document was produced by a French official I expect trouble, too. But, let's give it a try.
For now, let me point out this. Jeszkowice does not sound very Polish to me, but rather Czech. We would rather have it Jaśkowice. How do you know Zinowja was Polish at all? Like Piotr Nojszewski mentioned above, the surname is common all throughout Slavonic speaking area. It translates Black (Noir). For instance, you will find a lot of people of this surname in the Czech Republic. They spell it differently, though. It's Černý there. That's why I suggested your revealing your source of information. Is it that you know from family tradition that she came from somewhere in Poland? Or you just speculated based on the sounding of the name?

The google search seems to suggest that Zinowja is the Slovenian variant of Zenobia. So maybe she was Slovenian and that's Slovenia where you should look for Jeszkowice...

Greetings
mlszw

https://genealogy2016.wordpress.com/2016/01/

No speculation here from my part!
Let me know if you cannot see the document saved in the link given.

[mlszw]

Lanlea

The link opens fine.

I can see your pain now. Let the others look at it, maybe some one will come up with an idea how to proceed.

One question - do you think Zinowja was literate? What makes me wonder is the digraph "sz" in Jeszkowice. The city officer would not write it out of his own incentive. One may speculate that the spelling was suggested by the notifying person, i.e., the person who came to mayor's office to announce the birth. Who do you think this might be? And how reliable the data are?

Let me think it over and do some search.

mlszw

[Lanlea]

The village Jeśkowce (not Jeśkowice - I misspelled it) was in Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth till 1795. It was later in Russia (not in the Polish Kingdom) but since 1919 again in Poland.

It was located east of Woroniłowicze
https://goo.gl/maps/xNATfnskdQn

You can find it on the map
http://www.kami.net.pl/kresy/
after you put Jaskowce in the search box.

Wikipedia about Różana
https://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/R%C3%B3%C ... d_brzeski)

The key point is the what was the confession of your ancestor?
The books in Poland and in Russia were kept in the respective church.

Hello
Thank you for the maps.
I agree the confession is a key point but sadly I do not know, my mother was abandoned orphan and there is no information about it.
I understand what you mean about the books kept in the church .

[piotr_nojszewski]

In general there were ONLY church books in this time made in 2 copies.
The general rule was one copy stays in the Parish the second goes to Court/Public Administration.