Monika if you are out there another area to look at

[os2hugh]

Monika,

If you are reading this Iwas wondering if you could check the indexes for me for these sets of years for potential Children of Jozef Szymkiewicz and his wife Elzbieta Strutynski. Iknow they were married in 1844 (thanks to you) and was wondering ifyou could check in the years following the marriage for children of the said couple.

Forgive me if you already scanned these looking for previous birth records of other ancestors (ie Konstanty's children).

best regards,

Hugh

- births 1843-1848
http://www.epaveldas.lt/vbspi/biRecord. ... rdId=55322

- births 1848-1856
http://www.epaveldas.lt/vbspi/biRecord. ... rdId=55242

-births 1856-1862
http://www.epaveldas.lt/vbspi/biRecord. ... rdId=55241

-births 1862-1870
http://www.epaveldas.lt/vbspi/biRecord. ... rdId=55221

[MonikaMaru]

Hi, Hugh,

I found only one child.
http://www.epaveldas.lt/vbspi//content/ ... _232715_42

99. of Szymkiewiczes
- on 31th July 1845 in Szyrwinty church FT Józef Wiattowicz christened named JULIAN WINCENTY
- son of nblm Józef Szymkiewicz and Elżbieta nee Strutyńska, born in Szyrwinty on 27th July 1845
- godparents were Konstanty Szymkiewicz and miss Karolina Poczepowicz


Pozdrawiam,
Monika
--------------------------------------------------

PS. Oh, Karolina is found! I checked who is godmother Karolina Grodziewicz from Adolf birth record. Bingo!

http://www.epaveldas.lt/vbspi//content/ ... 232679_116

12. of Grodziewiczes
- on 16.IX.1858 in Szyrwinty church FT Dominik Krassowski joined in marriage

- minor nobleman ("jednodworzec" - owner of one manor) KLEMENS GRODZIEWICZ, 30 years old, from Kiernowa village in local parish
with noblewoman KAROLINA SZYMKIEWICZ, 27 years old, young lady from Wiciuny

- son of minor nblm Antoni Grodziewicz and Łucja nee Połubińska
with daughter of nblm Izydor Szymkiewicz and Konstancja nee Białozor(?)
witnesses: Ludwik Jurewicz, Julian Jurewicz and Stanisław Wendenski

regards,
Monika

[os2hugh]

Monika,


thank you for your prompt reply and low anfd behold you were one step ahead of me. I was going to ask about the Karolina who my 2nd great grandfather Adolf's Godmother, yet you were a step ahead of me. I guess with Kunegunda we will never know which of the names was actually her birth name. There are so many variations I almost wonder in her children know what her name was

[os2hugh]

Iwas wondering if the period of baptisms after the 1858 Grodziewicz's mentions them having any children in the same parish. I know the books only go so far, but If you could take a glance this week I would be most grateful.


Regards ,

Hugh

[MonikaMaru]

Hugh,

I made a new discovery. But step by step.
In Szyrwinty was only one family Grodziewicz. They were Józef and his wife Urszula nee Drybowicz/Drapowicz/Drogowicz/Drabowicz and even Tomaszewicz.
Józef was born in Szyrwinty in 1825. His parents were Antoni and Łucja Połubińska! So Józef is the brother of Klemens Grodziewicz. Five children of Józef and Urszula were born in Szyrwinty. Aniela`s godfather was Konstanty Szymkiewicz (Szyrwinty 1853).

I could not find any records of Klemens in Szyrwinty . I tried to guess where he might live. In 1858 (his marriage) he lived in "Kiernowa". I find Kernave near Mejszagoła (in Polish Kiernowo)
https://www.google.pl/maps/dir/Mejszago ... 54.8867079

Again bingo! Registry books from Kernave are on epaveldas.
And here are all books from Kernave
http://www.epaveldas.lt/vbspi/simpleSearch.do

In Kernave there lived Grodziewiczes. I found last daughter of Józef and Urszula, and a death record of Józef. And at last a trace of Klemens.
Here is the Latin birth record of wanted Klemens Grodziewicz (Nr 75).
http://www.epaveldas.lt/vbspi//content/ ... S_1968_187

I found only one child of Klemens and Karolina - Hipolit Błażej Grodziewicz 1863/11
http://www.epaveldas.lt/vbspi//content/ ... _S_1974_62

- on 6th Febr. 1863 in Kiernowo parish church FT Jan Wojtkiewicz christened named HIPOLIT BŁAŻEJ
- son of minor nblm Klemens Grodziewicz and Karolina nee Szymkiewicz; born in Kiernowo on 3rd Febr. 1863
- godparents: minor nblm Julian Rodziewicz and Anna Taboret

That`s all.

Pozdrawiam,
Monika

[os2hugh]

Monika,

I noticed in your summaries of records pertaining to my Szymkiewicz connections that some of them are referred to as "Noblemen" and "minor noblemen".

Some of the Latin records you helped me find I had translated in full and they list Izdor and Kunegunda as Generosis Dominus or (GD) before their names. My Translator David seems to think this means they were nobles perhaps of a higher social status then a lower gentryman. I don't know how much you know about the Szlachta but i figured I'd ask

[MonikaMaru]

Hi, Hugh,

You asked me a difficult question. I can only say that legal social status of Szymkiewicz family was nobile status in all records. They were addressed "Generous" in Latin, "Urodzony" in Polish and "Дворянин" in Russian records. You can check in dictionaries what these words mean.

It looked different in records of Grodziewicz family.

Children of Antoni and Łucja nee Połubińska (Szyrwinty)
- birth record of Ksawery Józef - born 1821, a. 79 [jpg181] - parents addressed GD
- of Józef Karol - 1825, a. 11 [108] - parents addressed GD
- of Justyn Walerian - 1830 a. 48 [jpg119] - parents addressed "urodzony" ( nobile/GD)

Children of Józef and Urszula nee Drabowicz? (Szyrwinty)
- Teofil - 1850 a.120 [70] - parents addressed "однодворец" [middle/minor nobile = jednodworzec (sing.), jednodworcy (pl.)]
- Aniela - 1853 a. 18 [125] - as above
- after 1853 Grodziewicz family addressed "крестянe" (peasants). They were: Onufry -1856/6 [190]; Józef -1860/36[129]; Katarzyna- 1862/97[190]; Weronika 1865/140[74- all from Szyrwinty
- Józef senior - death rec. 1879/28 [126] Kernave - adressed peasant

I noticed that when they were adressed as "jednodworcy" they lived in Koźliszki. But after lossing this title they often changed their living place ( every next child was born in another village). Really they lost their court/farm?

Why it was so?
I think that in connection with a tsarist decree of 19.Nov.1831 the family Grodziewicz was included at first in "jednodworcy" (minor/middle nobility) because they could not confirm their nobile lineage. However, they could still enjoy some of privileges of the nobility (f.ex. of acces to schools and education). But in next years and after January Insurrection, those who had not proven nobility were certainly included to peasant state or to burgeois state.

I do not know if it is clear for you. You can ask for more on our forum. I have a problem with the explanation of such complicated subject because of my not enough good English.

Here is link to Polish Szlachta. Look how much terms there is for petty nobility:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Szlachta

Pozdrawiam,
Monika

[Wojciechowicz_Krzysztof]

Hugh,

If you really wish to learn all the intricacies of the XIX nobles’ hierarchic system and its implications, you should see the film ‘Nad Niemnem’, with English subtitles: http://www.polishmoviesonline.com/banks ... p-340.html

Krzysztof

[os2hugh]

Krzysztof,

thank you I will definitely look into the film, I am a lover of things cultural. I have been reading Reymont's "The Peasants" I am still on book one however!!