Mieczysław Wolski (1892)

Wolski_M92 · Post autor: **Wolski_M92** » śr 12 gru 2018, 17:21

I have a new question:

I found a church record in the Kielce Katedra from 1843 where my ancestor is called "Wielmożny Gustaw Wolski" (416, line 2): http://metryki.genbaza.pl/genbaza,detail,95840,57
Does it mean he was an aristocrat? I didn't see this "title" with other people yet.

Krystyna.waw · Post autor: **Krystyna.waw** » czw 13 gru 2018, 17:00

Wielmożny is the courtesy title.
It doesn't mean Wolski was a noble man.

Sroczyński_Włodzimierz

no, it is not only courtesy
99,9% that's real title:) in this and others case

Wolski_M92 · Post autor: **Wolski_M92** » czw 13 gru 2018, 17:17

Yes, I also think so, that it's not only a courtesy title (maybe today?). If it was only a courtesy title, there should be much more people with this title in the books but I rarely see it. On another page I saw a big "W" infront of his name (and his companions) - is it an abbreviation for "Wielmożny"? e.g. here (461): http://metryki.genbaza.pl/genbaza,detail,95806,50

As you can see most people were not addressed this way.

If it's not only a courtesy title. What kind of people usually were addressed that way?

Krystyna.waw · Post autor: **Krystyna.waw** » czw 13 gru 2018, 17:31

Here you will find some explanation
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Szlachta

Wolski_M92 · Post autor: **Wolski_M92** » czw 13 gru 2018, 18:02

Thank you, interesting article. So you think it was a Szlachcic? I saw a difference in time and place - I mean later in the 1860s and outside of Kielce (e.g. in Checiny) I didn't see this "Wielmożny" or "W" again. Did they lose their title or was it not common to adress people this way in later times or in small villages?

Also I saw several times the abbreviation "JP." infront of ones name, e.g. "JP. Ferdinand Hahn", see the above posted link. What does this mean?

Edit:
I found an explanation for "JP" here: https://genealogia.okiem.pl/wl_kr_1790_n.htm

JP means JEGOMOŚĆ PAN or JAŚNIE PAN (JP). And "W" stands for "Wielmożny" as I already thought. Is there a ranking for those titles? Is JWP the same as "W". Is JP a higher rank as W?

Edit 2:
Here is another site that explains the ranking a bit:
http://kaminscy.pl/index.php/genealogia/hierarchia/

So a wielmożny in the 19th century was a szlachcic (sub-group "posesjonat"). What does "posesjonat" mean? And what does "właściciel przynaj-mniej jednej wsi" mean?

Krystyna.waw · Post autor: **Krystyna.waw** » pt 14 gru 2018, 14:32

Polish nobility, law, rules, ranks, changes in time at territory etc. are too difficult for me, even in Polish language ;(

posesjonat - old word for owner of land or the property (real estate) in the town.
właściciel przynajmniej jednej wsi - the owner of at least one village, he owes one village or more.

Wolski_M92 · Post autor: **Wolski_M92** » pt 14 gru 2018, 15:56

Thank you for the explanation. I often read "Dzierzawca" behind Wolskis name. Could you translate this to me? "... Wolski Dzierzawca Dobr w Czarnowie zamieszkaly". Does it mean that he owned land in Czarnow? Or did he lease land from someone else for himself? Or a totally different meaning? (no. 15: http://metryki.genbaza.pl/genbaza,detail,95546,4)

Krystyna.waw · Post autor: **Krystyna.waw** » pt 14 gru 2018, 18:27

dzierżawca = lease-holder, tenat living (resident) in Czarnów village
You can check here

https://pl.bab.la/slownik/polski-angiel ... %C5%BCawca

Wolski_M92 · Post autor: **Wolski_M92** » pt 14 gru 2018, 18:39

Ok, and "Dobr" is what? Is it land with buildings on it for agricultural work?

Krystyna.waw · Post autor: **Krystyna.waw** » pt 14 gru 2018, 19:09

Genitive case from word dobra
Dobra = demesne

A little bit of time and you will be fluent in Polish

Wolski_M92 · Post autor: **Wolski_M92** » pt 14 gru 2018, 19:55

Thank you very much for your Polish lessons. I wouldn't mind being fluent in Polish so I could easier read and understand the metrics. But I'm afraid that won't happen. I'm already happy to understand and to decipher the most important facts.

Another question:

In the following metrics it is written that Marya Otkiewicz is born in Drozgów (Gubernia Lubelski) (no. 50, line 10-11): http://poczekalnia.genealodzy.pl/pliki/ ... 47-050.jpg

But I can't find such a village on the map. Do you know where this village is and to what church the people of that village went? I can only find a village called Drożdżów but that is not the same village, isn't it?

Edit:
Is it maybe Drążgów ? It's in the Lubelski region.

Sroczyński_Włodzimierz

as I wrote in PM: you should contact the person via e-mail, he will answer to these and many other questions (inc. how to contact with relatives)

Wolski_M92 · Post autor: **Wolski_M92** » sob 15 gru 2018, 13:17

Thank you for the recommendation, I will contact him later. But nevertheless I would also like to ask my questions here. So has anyone an idea where the village "Drozgów" (Gubernia Lubelski) is and if it's actually "Drążgów"?

Arek_Bereza · Post autor: **Arek_Bereza** » sob 15 gru 2018, 13:49

This Drzozgów is a mistake propably ?
In my opinion Your Maria was born in Siostrzytów (parochia Biskupice) https://szukajwarchiwach.pl/35/1647/0/2 ... RsClmKt2hQ
here is the act of marriege of her parents http://www.szukajwarchiwach.pl/35/1893/ ... rvisxIldFA (but you propably know about that)
use lubgens site and remember that Otkiewicz could be also written as Olkiewicz