Scheffler Maria - research from France

[punk01]

T/ "Research from France"

Hello,

I come to you to ask for your help. I am looking for the parents of Mrs Maria SCHEFFLER. She would have been born on 25/09/1895 in Kloski (no details). I only know that her mother is named Anna.

Do you think you can help me?

This Madame SCHEFFLER is married to Mr Jakob KELMA in Poland (I have no details on their marriage).

Thank you so much.

[Jaro_Chudzik]

Give us more data to help you. Which one citizenship had Maria and Jakob in 1895 - 1918 period: German, Russian or Austrian? Probably they had to be a members of church - which one: roman-catholic, lutheran, jewish, orthodox or other? What was their native language (German, Polish, Jewish/Jidish, Russian?) When did Anna emigrated from Poland (to France?) ?

There are no Schefflers or Kelma"s borned in Kłoski (2 villages) in Kobylin Parish and in Kluski (in the past:Kłoski) in Lututów Parish. I've checked indexes for both roman-cath. parishes.

[Sroczyński_Włodzimierz]

Maybe something more about children as a hint for faith (and marriage) of Maria i Jakub?

[punk01]

Here are all the details I can provide.
The couple SCHEFFLER and KELMA went to Germany around 1921 then came to France around 1924.
They had several children, including Anna born on 02/18/1923 in Hordel, Germany.
They are catholic.

Mr KELMA Jakob was born on 07/09/1879 in Zakrzewo.
Mme SCHEFFLER Maria born 25/09/1895 in Kloski (apparently).
Marriage certificate not found.

Here is the few document I currently have. The birth certificate of her husband, Mr KELMA.

https://zupimages.net/viewer.php?id=20/18/647z.jpg

This document specifies in red the name of the town of birth of Mrs. SCHEFFLER. But I can't read it.

https://zupimages.net/viewer.php?id=20/18/htqq.png

Thank you

[Andrzej75]

Here are the few documents I currently have. The birth certificate of her husband, Mr KELMA. And the act of second marriage of Mrs. SCHEFFLER after the death of Mr. KELMA.

https://zupimages.net/viewer.php?id=20/18/647z.jpg

https://zupimages.net/viewer.php?id=20/18/c7mw.jpg

Mais ce deuxieme document ne concerne point Marianna Kelma née Scheffler.
C’est l’acte de mariage de Marianna Kelma née Ozdowska (mere de Jacob).

[Jaro_Chudzik]

Man, where is a word: "Kloski" in document as a place of birth of Maria ? Where in document is mentioned her mother (Anna)? Show it to us.

Second document has a date: tausend acht hundert achtzig. Translate it to know, it couldn't be a certificate of marriage of seeking Maria Scheffler.

[punk01]

Oh sorry I was wrong ... the second document does not have the act of Mrs SCHEFFLER. I withdraw it.

I have indeed only the act of naturalization of his son where his name is mentioned, as well as his death certificate in French. There is inscribed the first name of his mother Anna, and the name of the city of birth. Unfortunately, I fear that this city name is erroneous, or written in phonetics.

https://zupimages.net/viewer.php?id=20/18/futs.png

Thank you.

[elgra]

Tłumaczenie aktu zgonu

akt zgonu n° 9 [miejscowość Erre, departament Nord]
+20.04.1987 Maria Scheffler, urodzona w Closeki (Polska) 05.09.1898, bez zawodu
wdowa po Jakubie Kelma
córka zmarłej Anny Scheffler

[Andrzej75]

Ici, je lirais << Ciosnki >>.
Ici il est écrit << Closeki >>.
Mais, dans les deux cas, ces noms de lieu sont corrompus. En Pologne, il n’y a pas de tels villages.
Il y a une village avec un nom similaire (Czosaki-Dąb, dans la paroisse de Kołaki), pourtant je n’y vois pas les Scheffler.

[elgra]

Daty urodzenia się nie zgadzają

[elgra]

@ punk01
Jak ci na imię? Quel est ton prenom ?

Masz akty urodzenia jej dzieci?
Wszystkie dzieci urodziły się we Francji?

Avez-vous les certificats de naissance de ses enfants ?
Tous les enfants sont nés en France ?

[punk01]

Jak ci na imię? Nicolas

Masz akty urodzenia jej dzieci? nie
Wszystkie dzieci urodziły się we Francji? 1 w Niemczech i 3 we Francji ...


Please note that Mrs SCHEFFLER's death certificate was drawn up after her death. the information was reported by a neighbor. His date of birth and the name of his city of birth are probably false or approximate. She was born on September 25, 1895.

[TomekD]

Aktualny rozkład nazwisk nosicieli nazwisk:
Scheffler
http://nlp.actaforte.pl:8080/Nomina/Ndi ... er&join=on
Kelma
http://nlp.actaforte.pl:8080/Nomina/Ndi ... ma&join=on
skłania ku poszukiwaniom w obecnym województwie wielkopolskim / kujawsko-pomorskim.

Są dwie daty urodzenia Marii Scheffler i dwie wersje miejscowości (jak odczytał Andrzej):
22/09/1895 Ciosnki
https://www.zupimages.net/viewer.php?id=20/18/htqq.png
05/09/1898 Closeki
https://www.zupimages.net/viewer.php?id=20/18/futs.png
(tłumaczenie Eli elgra)

Z tego wszystkiego obstawiałbym miejscowość Ciosek (dzisiaj część miejscowości Obodowo):
https://goo.gl/maps/xvafWbxVBez4jHru5

Na mapie z 1894 jako Ciosseck położenie 22/82:
http://www.deutschefotothek.de/document ... 10001_2572

Wszystko wygląda pięknie, Obodowo powiat sępoleński gdzie współcześnie nazwisko Scheffler było najliczniej reprezentowane.

Tyle że w zindeksowanych zasobach, z lat około 1895/1898, nie ma śladu po urodzeniu Marii Scheffler...

[punk01]

Your research is impressive and suggests that it is fair ... but again, no trace of this person ... strange.
I understand that she is the woman employed by the family to care for the children. Because Mr KELMA Jakob's first wife was Mrs HANUSEK Maria Petronille ...

Their 1st child was born in Germany in 1923 in Hordel ... maybe they were married in Germany? but that does not change anything at his birth which must be in poland.

[Daniel_Paczkowski]

Jakub Kelma was born in Kłecko roman catholic parish in Zakrzewo village (wielkopolskie voivodeship). So, maybe Maria Scheffler also somwhere in close vicinity. I cannot however guess Cioseki, Ciostek, or Ciortek place name.