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Witajcie, przyjaciele,

 Nazywam się Hugh Whiting, i jestem Amerykaninem polskiego pochodzenia ze z Wileńszczyzny i trockim regionu Kresy Polski i Litwy. Jak można prawdopodobnie powiedzieć, mój polski nie jest bardzo dobra, więc proszę pokrywa się ze mną.

Dzięki w dużej części z pomocą forum członkowie usłyszeć i wielu archiwistów w Europie byłem w stanie znaleźć moich przodków wraca w większości mojej polskiej drzewa genealogicznego. Jednak mój sukces uderzył w ślepy zaułek ze strony matki mojego dziadka, rodzin Szymkiewicz, Fronckiewicz, Rogowicz i Dowt.

 Mimo, że znalazłem kilka rekordy małżeństwa na tej stronie rodziny, mam na razie nie znaleziono dalszych pokoleń wstecz. Znalazłem rekordy w kościele Nowe trockim i kościoła Kozakiszki dla tych rodzin, ale nie wrócić dalej niż rekordy małżeństwa z 1860 roku "do około 1884 roku Czy ktoś jest w stanie udzielić mi rad, jak być może zawęzić gdzie w tym Obszar niektóre z tych rodzin pochodzi? Dziękujemy wszystkim, którzy mogą pomóc.

Z poważaniem,

                       Hugh

Hugh, could you be more specific?

I understand you found registers running back to roughly 1860 and got stuck there, correct? Were you stuck because you have no access to earlier metric books, or you checked those earlier and your ancestors are not there? In the latter case take into consideration that guys moved around for various reasons – jobs, marriages etc. Besides, in 1863 the January Uprising broke out. These were rough times for people of Vilnius and Troki regions.

Szymkiewicz and Frąckiewicz were highly popular surnames in that area. I encoutered plenty of Szymkiewiczs in the nineteenth century metric books. On the other hand Rogowicz and especially Dowt, are rare. So, if you are stuck, try to locate the Dowts.

Give more details, maybe I'll remember something helpful.

Greetings
mlszw

Thanks for the reply,

Here's the specifics on the end of the road finds.

Szymkiewicz finds:1.1884 Marriage record from Kozakiszki RC Church of Adolf Szymkiewicz s/o Konstanty and Julia (Dowt) Szymkiewicz, and the his bride Jozefa Fronckiewicz d/o Jozef and Marcjanna (Rogowicz) Fronckiewicz.
2.Various birth records of children of Adolf and Jozefa Szymkiewicz all baptized in Kozakiszki: Weronika (March 1885), Bronislaw (December 1895) etc.

The brick wall is I have had researchers comb through the Kozakiszki birth and marriage records going back to at least 1850 with nothing to really show, I have also checked for Adolf's birth record circa 1860 (he was listed as 23 on his marriage record)
in surrounding parishes (Jewie, Suderwa, Troki, Mejszagola to name a few but as of yet dead ends. I also checked for his parents marriage records in the same parishes with nohing found.

As for the Fronckiewicz line:

1.baptism/birth record of Jozefa Fronckiewicz March/April 1864 in Nowe Troki Roman Catholic church (She was actually born in Landwarow in mid March 1864, and baptized over a month later in Nowe Troki).

the dead end is I can't find her parents marriage or birth records in Nowe Troki but my fear is they were married or born in one of Wilno's many parishes, which would make the search almost impossible.

So thats essentiallythe situation, have been pecking away at surrounding parishes from the known ones with zero hits. That is why I am hoping to find someone who might have fresh leads based on the surnames.

Hugh

The metric books from Kozakiszki are not available online. So I can't look at the marriage record of Adolf Szymkiewicz. Normally, they indicated the parish of origin of both parts in the text. So, if he had not moved to Kozakiszki parish prior to the wedding, this would lead you to at least his previous place. Do you have a scan of this register? If yes, place it here.

Some of the Wilno metric books are available online. If you know approximately the year, the task is not that hopeless. But I personally would bet she was not born in Wilno. City dwellers rather stayed there.

mlszw

Here is the marriage record (In Russian) Maybe you can glean something from it.

Hugh


[/img]http://mv.ancestry.com/viewer/f89ff0b2- ... 4008981362

Ok., Hugh. There is a good and a bad news. The good news first. Your Adolf, although he already lived in Kozakiszki around at that time, came from zaścianek written in the register as Cukuny. The handwriting is sloppy, so unless you know what to expect, it's hard to decipher. That seems to me a variant of the name Cykony, a village in the Oszmiana county in Lipniszki community. That is a good way to the south east from Kozakiszki. Now the bad news. If my guess is correct, because that's only a guess, then his parish was in Lipniszki. Lipniszki belong today to Byelarus, a genealogical black hole. Slim chances you'll get access to their archival resources unless you are rich.

You might try also this lead: try to locate the witnesses at the wedding. Their names are: Ignacy Audycki (rare surname), Jan Bo[can't decipher], ]Aleksander Dziubiński, Władysław Mieczkowski, Antoni Frąckiewicz.

Now a small lecture on the spelling of the surname Frąckiewicz. The name in the register is spelt Fronckiewicz. Russian does not have many sounds Polish has. In particular, they don’t have nasals ą and ę. These sounds were replaced in the registers by their closest Russian equivalents, "on" in the case of "ą" and "en" in the case of "ę". The morale: when you reach the registers from the times before 1848, when Russian was enforced as the official language of the registers, look for Frąckiewicz and not Fronckiewicz. Also, in the Polish and other sources using Latin script search for Frąckiewicz.

mlszw

Thanks mlszw,

It is a possible lead I had never thought of. I was hoping the Archives in Wilno would have other records that might have listed other records that might glean where exactly he was born. I had been told that generally the information would be necessary to ensure a valid marriage (ie legitimacy, verified sacraments etc. Also of interest there seems to still be Szymkiewicz's in the Wilno area on Radzima.org oddly enough they seem to know some Michalkiewicz's from the area!! What a coincidence my Great grandmother Weronika married Jozef Michalkiewicz in 1903 in Nowe Troki.....what are the chances that it si not a connection?

Hugh

The chances are slim. In my life's time I knew one Frąckiewicz and my friend's surname is Szymkiewicz, just to give you a feeling of the situation. Michałkiewicz or Michalkiewicz is also not so rare, though not that frequent. All these surnames were derived from personal names or their diminutives: Frąckiewicz from a diminutive of Francis, Szymkiewicz diminutive of Szymon (Simon) and Michałkiewicz/Michalkiewicz form Michał (Michael). To you they sound exotic, but in reality they correspond to surnames like Francis, Simons, Simmonds and the like, and Michels and so on. Many unrelated people bear these surnames. That's why drawing conclusions based on the occurrence of such a surname in some area is misleading if not unfounded at all. That's why in my previous posts I indicated the surnames that are rare.

Lithuanian archives keep mostly only resources from their present territory, though there are exceptions. As a rule of thumb, all metric books from today's Byelarus are in Minsk, Vitebsk and Grodno and nobody knows exactly what they have. Chances are the Mormons photocopied the ones that might be of interest to you. Incidentally, my situation is similar to yours. On my male line I got till 1863 and got stuck there. The traces lead to Vitebsk and there is little I can do.

Greetings
mlszw

Thanks for the information, I am grateful for the corrections in some rather foolish assumptions . I will keep slogging away in the hope that one of the surrounding parishes will bear fruit (really hope Belarus is not where I have to go). I just found the copy of the translation my friend/translator Ola did for me a few months back. She also agrees that the cyrillic name of Adolf's village is quite illegible, and can't make certain sense out of it. She thinks it's either Cukier or Cukry, but isn't sure. Of intersting note however is the brides village Minagura is just to the northwest of Kozakiszki and my great grandmothers village of birth Moskaliszki just north and east of Minagura. A poster here informed me that near minagura is a small riplace which on modern oline map is called Sukra in a similar location to where Minagura and Kozakiszki are. If not Belarus perhaps this place is it, but just a guess.

Here's that Sukra village on google maps.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Sukra ... 5e96?hl=en

Hugh

mlszw,

Just found the Lipniszki Roman Catholic church books, that covers many years and could potentially look for my Szymkiewicz and Frackiewicz ancestors from there. They don't have my exact year however they might have close years where I can look for his father Konstanty and his mother Julia Dowt. spending 8 bucks per film beats the heck out of paying the fees for hit and miss archives searches. My ancestors of peasant origin have been in the same area going way back to 1800 or so Suderwa parish, it seems the more well off ancestors moved a bit more often, at least it seems so. Also do you deem it a high possibility that these elusive Szymkiewicz/Frackiewicz's could have been Greek Catholics??

Just seeing what you think.

Hugh

Quick question could someone here please tell me how the list here for mejszagola is organized. In other words how the columns are sorted out? I am looking on this 1840 list for my Narkiewicz and Giedrojc ancestors who where from this parish.

Thanks so much

Hugh

Hugh
I'm astonished how quickly you managed to access the registers from Lipniszki. I guess the Mormons microfilmed them, right?

Now straight answer to your question. The Szymkiewiczs and the Frąckiewiczs could not have been Greek Catholic; they certainly must have been RK. Why? Because all GR communities were included by law and force to the Orthodox Church after 1839.

https://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synod_po%C5%82ocki

All those who opposed were punished. Moreover, conversions to RK were at first frowned at and later prohibited. Since Adolf and Józefa had gotten married in a RK church, their families must have been RK. Period.

I took another look at the register. Your friend Ola is right, the name of the settlement there is written as "Cukru". That's a bit strange, because the declension here should in nominative, whereas in Polish we mostly don't have nouns ending in "u" in nominative. At the end of the nineteenth century a large gazetteer containing entries on almost all settlements in the former Commonwealth appeared:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geographi ... _of_Poland
This publication is now available online. I personally use this site to access particular entries:
http://genealogyindexer.org/
The point is there is one entry related to the root Cukier there, Cukrowa Wola, but that place is far from Lithuania.
http://genealogyindexer.org/frame/h5/716/d
I now found also a zaścianek named Cukiernia that also qualifies, since that one is located some 30 miles to the NE of Kozakiszki.
http://genealogyindexer.org/frame/h19/346/d
Note that the book indexes almost all small settlements. That's why I suggested Cykony as the possible place. The book has a supplement in its last volume, where they put all places they had missed previously. So when one looks for a particular name it's good to look up the body and this supplement. Cykony are mentioned in the supplement:
http://genealogyindexer.org/frame/h19/346/d
But you may look it up yourself and search for a place related to Cukru.

I also tried to locate the surname Audycki. One Antoni Audycki is mentioned in 1915 Grodno Gubernia Commemorative Book. This is a very rare surname. We may only speculate that this family lived there. That would support Cykony again.

Another observation: Adolf and Józefa were relatively young. Typical age for a groom was 25 to 30 and the bride 22 to 25. It must have been a great love.

As to the maiden name of his mother. I think it was Dowta or Dowda. I knew a person of the name Dowda, so the surname exists. The Lithuanian original would be Dovda or Dovdas. It's difficult to resolve this, since in the register the surname is mentioned in plural genetive.

You should also review all church books from Wilno that are available online – just to make sure. They are available here:
http://www.epaveldas.lt/vbspi/simpleSea ... C94E22FA1C
Gimimo – born, santuokos – married, mirties – deaths. Usually the surnames are written on the margin. If you find a Szymkiewicz or Frąckiewicz you may send me the link I'll check it up.

All the best with your research
mlszw

Mlszw,

Thanks for the tips I found here is the link for the Mejszagola 1840 parish member list, could you please give me a heads up on how it is organized by column. I will look through it for my ancestors Adam Narkiewicz and Jadwiga Giedrojc.

http://genealogia.lt/pdfs/Spis%20parafi ... 40%20r.pdf

The title of the table on the left page: sex male
on the right: sex female
The columns from the left: sequential number (whatever that means)
The name of the parish member and surname and his/her father's name
Age
What estate (social)
Place of residence

mlszw

the reason I ask is my ancestor Aniela Jozefata was born in Elizabelinie kaime in this parish 0n 27 november 1831 so I am hoping that this plays out that I can find her about aged 8-9 and her parents and perhaps other relatives. It seems to be organized by family is this the case mlszw??

Hugh